Sarah, The Bringer of Tea - Will Someone Take Her Pen Away Before She Pokes Her Eye Out?
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10:17 am
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Will Someone Take Her Pen Away Before She Pokes Her Eye Out?
I apologise for those who are getting tired of this now - I know I am.
Anyway, it seems that in the dying embers of the post-protest aftermath, something has briefly flamed up, and promptly gone out in a sad looking puff of smoke. After returning to troll the Facebook group, playing the part of the Wicked Witch of the West, promising to get us and our little dogs, the Guardian have given her the column space to take another pot-shot at us.
It's also online, here, at "Comment is Free", under the title, "It's not me. It's you"
Interestingly, at the time of writing, she seems to be getting ripped to shreds in the comment, with lots of people seemingly irritated by what seems little more than a rant from someone who's trying to have a temper tantrum in print, but who has run out of energy. Her readers are telling her to get over herself.
And after all her trolling on Facebook, and the worries people had that she'll use it to mine for comments to make us look bad, this is what she came up with:
"In the meantime, on the same websites, an intersex person was told to shut up by a transsexual, and lesbian feminists who were born women are being told they are neither of these things by a number of women who were born male but believe they make better lesbians than me."
Well, that's clearly a fatal blow to the cause of acceptance and rights for trans people, right there. It's going to take seconds decades to recover from that setback.
I do genuinely feel sorry for her. I think she so wanted to be a big crusading journalist, who uncovered some great big medical plot to turn gay and lesbian people straight through surgery. I suspect David Batty did too, but he at least had the sense to quietly walk away (or so one assumes - he's said nothing for ages) when it because obvious that the plot didn't exist anywhere but in their own heads, and Iran.
But it seems Julie couldn't leave it alone, and all she's succeeded in doing is managing to unite most of the trans community in annoyance at the organisations who are so keen on ignoring their own communities in order to cosy up to her, and make herself look increasingly stupid in print.
To the people behind her nomination for "Journalist of the Year", I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for the way you've treated trans people by proxy, and you should also be ashamed of yourself for nominating someone who produces articles like today's, because lots of people can recognise quality journalism, and that's not it.
Now she's taken all the rope she's been given and well and truly hanged herself with it, can we please stop giving this person platforms to "debate" with us? It doesn't do us any good, and if it's going to result in more articles like that, it's probably kinder for Julie as well, even though she might not think so.
In the meantime, this "born male" has better things to do, like going and making herself a "better lesbian". There might even be details on my BDSM filter later if I manage to do particularly well at it.
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This "born women" stuff makes me think of Macbeth...
well i do have a red sticky substance all over my hands.
It seems a bit pointlessly competitive, doesn't it? Why does she care how good, or otherwise, trannydykes are at lesbianism? Would she like to send the lesbian inspector round to our houses to make sure we possess the correct number of cats?
But this lesbian (leaning bi) doesn't have a pussy.
Am I full of fail?
Edited at 2008-11-08 11:20 (UTC)
I was drinking tea! Now I need to make more :-(
your u-haul hitch fails inspection.
| | From: | ![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif) auntysarah |
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| Date: | 8th November, 2008 01:08 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: maybe u.s.-centric | (Link) |
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*snerk*
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/95490838/12012574) | | From: | lucullean |
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| Date: | 8th November, 2008 02:33 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: maybe u.s.-centric | (Link) |
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hahahaaaaa.
The way that she seems to try to turn womanhood into a competition is something I've been wondering about for a while. There was that part of the "Just Plain Sense" interview in which she answered "Am I a woman" with "I don't feel that it's productive to ask who's more of a woman than who else", or words to that effect. Which wasn't what Christine had asked, but pretending that the question had a competitive element served her aim of trying to categorize Christine's opinions as stereotypically 'male' and 'aggressive'. That was my take on it at least, although I might be reading too much into it....
I think that's a very legitimate take on such an answer. She seems to feel it necessary to create hierarchies, it makes me wonder if there's not, perhaps, some self-loathing going on that she's trying to counterbalance, that she feels that she's seen as less of a woman due to her own lesbianism and therefore has to project her own inscrutable views of who is and who isn't and who is moreso onto the world at large.
I'm actually worried about this. I think I have too many cats, and may be perceived as "ultradyke", or trying too hard.
Yep. I was delivered by Caesarean myself, and since the original version of "womyn-born-womyn" is "womyn-borne-womyn", meaning womyn born of womyn, I am hereby not historically qualified to attend Michigan, according to Shakespeare.
In the meantime, this "born male" has better things to do, like going and making herself a "better lesbian".
If I buy you the silicone, will you make me one too please?
And yeah, I think she's lost and she knows it. Does anyone know if that piece is actually in the print edition or just on the website?
Both, which is why I'm complaining in-thread and in a letter to the editor, because I'm hoping the readers editor will write a snarky response next week about how complaints don't matter because it's just a co-ordinated campaign from people across the globe.
| From: | (Anonymous) |
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| Date: | 8th November, 2008 12:10 pm (UTC) |
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| | She will regret that article | (Link) |
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Having read it again, the article does descend into incoherence by the end; which strongly suggests we rattled her. I think she may come to regret this article cos in her intemperance, she has aimed too widely and that will be noted by a much wider community than just ours.
Repeating the old religious slur against gay men of wanting to have sex with animals, trashing bisexuals (one wrote to me saying "She's attacking bis now as well. Who isn't she trying to offend ? "). If she wants to be left alone, she may now get her wish cos she's gonna be persona non grata in a lot of places.
| | From: | auntysarah |
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| Date: | 8th November, 2008 01:10 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: She will regret that article | (Link) |
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I wonder if she really did mean to suggest that she didn't want to be "lumped in" with devil-worshipers, people into bestiality and bisexuals.
I mean, WHAT?
Seriously, what?
| From: | (Anonymous) |
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| Date: | 8th November, 2008 01:56 pm (UTC) |
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| | She will regret that article | (Link) |
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Exactly. I think that having got that petulant fit out of her system, she might have been better advised to hit "delete" than "send to Guardian". I would imagine Peter Tatchell might have one or two words to say about her slurs if he sees them.
A fabulous own goal
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/78196654/14167414) | | | Re: She will regret that article | (Link) |
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Kinda like how James Dobson says that one of the worst things ever is going to the restroom with a bisexual or child molester.
God, I need to write my response today. It's going to be called "Lesbiansraum."
| | From: | auntysarah |
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| Date: | 9th November, 2008 06:48 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: She will regret that article | (Link) |
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Lesbiansraum
Nice!
| | | Re: She will regret that article | (Link) |
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Maybe it'll be like the last time I drew parallels between the extreme right wing and radical feminism, when transphobic radical feminists told me not to do that "because... Look! A COMET!"
I am kinda glad she wrote this, because it lays it all out there, how she sees everything as being about her.
| | From: | auntysarah |
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| Date: | 9th November, 2008 07:47 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: She will regret that article | (Link) |
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Meanwhile, we totally need to get some T-shrits made up that say:
Androgynous
Bisexual
Devil-worshiping
Cat-f*****r
(But at least I don't read the Guardian)
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/81548004/1991474) | | | Re: She will regret that article | (Link) |
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We so do. They would be absolutely purrfect.
Set of kitty ears as well?
| | | Re: She will regret that article | (Link) |
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You are brilliant. I want to live in England, have tea with you, and discuss the scandalous sexual escapades of queer folk and devil worshippers.
Or something like that.
| | From: | auntysarah |
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| Date: | 9th November, 2008 08:11 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: She will regret that article | (Link) |
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*giggle* Thank you!
I made this post into its own entry. Also, when we have finished our fish n' chips, Zoe and I are going to make it into a real T-shirt, available via the transfeminism.org.uk site.
And then I'm going to order one.
One day, we shall take afternoon tea together, m'dear.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/88250041/1041145) | | From: | cyberspice |
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| Date: | 9th November, 2008 07:53 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: She will regret that article | (Link) |
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how circular. her initial insecurities about trans men would have a thing or two to do with the fact that we would have all been called inverts 100 years ago.
I do wonder if it mostly comes down to that throwaway comment she made about how Doctors might have tried to persuade her she was male rather than a butch lesbian, if she was growing up in a highly ideological atmosphere which judged women on whether they fit certain extremely restrictive categories for what made 'good' and 'bad' women, whether that left her with some issues about herself which she is merely externalising rather than dealing with.
CIF posters have a tendancy to be contrary tosspots who would slam you for writing the sky is blue. Saying that, many of the commentators are making perceptive and intelligent points. Some of it isn't about trans-issues and is coming from straight men who are fed up with being constantly told they're rapists. Much if it is coming from lesbians (I commend bigkate's comment at 0931am). Julie seems to have few friends. Unfortunately, they must include the Guardian editorial team.
PS Thankfully, the idiot who always rants about chromosomes when trans issues come up appears to be on-holiday/sleeping-in/dead.
because all the commenters = readers = advertising dosh. No wonder the editorial board loves her. Whether they also respect her, mind you....
I knew this was coming, but I still can't really believe it has happened.
What are the odds that the right reply could gain actual column space to take this on? Is there a newspaper content watchdog?
| | From: | auntysarah |
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| Date: | 8th November, 2008 01:11 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: Bloody hell | (Link) |
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I understand it's being worked on.
My favourite bit was the definition of 'queer'.
I don't know if she saw my portrayal of her as an unfunny female version of Clarkson, but she seems to be trying to up her game in this regard.
I don't think she's really pulling it off though.
In this article she rather reminds me of the guys in the NatWest advert who tell Will his opinion isn't valid because he isn't wearing a disguise.
I was about to comment similarly. For someone who thinks that they know so much about issues in the, hmm, how to put it, non-hetero, non-cis, community, let's say, she... doesn't.
I love her use of ""odd" sexual habits" - cause its not like back in the 60s the general public though a woman having sexual relations with another woman wasn't "odd".
She really, really needs a new dictionary.
"Let's have an amicable split"
ok, so, if its not the people front of Judea - its a spilt between "people who believed in good things and did a lot but are now also wrong and don't do much" and "people who believe fully in good things and are still doing things"
its a spilt between "people who believed in good things and did a lot but are now also wrong and don't do much" and "people who believe fully in good things and are still doing things"
This.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/13328882/2563320) | | From: | celesteh |
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| Date: | 10th November, 2008 01:29 am (UTC) |
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| | | (Link) |
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I like your reply for the most part.
But when trans people start comparing transphobia to racism, that gets problematic. I mean, saying they're similar is ok, but trying to say which is worse is no good. This is a contest with no winners, it just alienates people who might otherwise be allies.
celesteh: No, I wasn't saying one is worse than the other, just trying to make a comparison - but obviously not doing a very good job of it!
So thanks for the heads up - I'll go and edit for clarity.
| | From: | celesteh |
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| Date: | 10th November, 2008 03:57 pm (UTC) |
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| | | (Link) |
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It's easy for white people to underestimate the vast amount of openly racist discourse. Unfortunately, a lot of people are willing to say things that are racist and vile, with the same degree of blatant horribleness as other people say transphobic things.
It's a good article otherwise. :)
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/68504877/11394771) | | From: | michaeltgo |
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| Date: | 10th November, 2008 03:37 am (UTC) |
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| | Sorry, commenting is not available at this time. Please try again later. | (Link) |
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Sorry, commenting is not available at this time. Please try again later.
grrr why can I not read the comments?
why am I up at this time of the morning?
Dont answer that *sigh*
| | From: | michaeltgo |
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| Date: | 10th November, 2008 05:31 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: Sorry, commenting is not available at this time. Please try again later. | (Link) |
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sorry, I meant the comments on the Guardian page (it was late when I posted). They were available later through a link in the JB/S(t)onewallFB but not from the article
lessThanGroan@BLOWME.. JBs attempts at humour are the nearest I get to feeling sorry for her
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/95807125/1215628) | | | Julie's starting her own group | (Link) |
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"Bindel's Lesbian Oriented Women - Men Excluded"
| | From: | auntysarah |
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| Date: | 10th November, 2008 05:18 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: Julie's starting her own group | (Link) |
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Men Excluded, Men Excluded, Men Excluded! It's all about Men Excluded!
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/79082136/14337707) | | From: | cmcmck |
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| Date: | 10th November, 2008 06:08 pm (UTC) |
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| | Re: Julie's starting her own group | (Link) |
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Oh,do you think she'd be upset if I took me husband along then? *ROFL* :o) |
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